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1 point by andreyf 3827 days ago | link | parent | on: Arc presentation

Hm, you seem to use the . notation as Python uses decorators, but chaining multiple decorators has a very different effect. In python, I'd expect foo.bar.3 to be (foo (bar (3))). In Arc, it seems to do (foo bar 3).

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1 point by CatDancer 3827 days ago | link

This will be fixed in the next release of Arc (http://arclanguage.org/item?id=9163)

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1 point by andreyf 3974 days ago | link | parent | on: Ask Arc: does code have to be text?

Precisely! Now, just make emacs replace "no" and "not" functions also, and you'll have what I was asking for.

However, my point is also that doing this kind of thing should be within the scope of PG's work - providing a "reference IDE" to show how he intends Arc code to be interacted with.

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4 points by jonnytran 3973 days ago | link

andreyf, I completely agree with you. How people write code in a language is -- from a user experience perspective -- part of the language in a very real sense. I've written about this before. http://plpatterns.com/post/37655849/1-2-n

Using symbols like ¬ and λ is a start. Paredit is even better. But I think programmers are stuck in the mindset that source code has to come from an ASCII text file. If you truly get the idea that code is just data, there's no reason why your "IDE" shouldn't be integrated with the language and provide a higher-level representation of the data you're editing. Also, depending on the task, you may want to view different aspects of your code. You can think of your source as the model in an MVC where multiple views and editing styles for the same data-structure are possible.

Once you view your code simply as data, all sorts of possibilities open up. The so-called Source Code In Database site has tons of examples of these features. http://mindprod.com/project/scid.html

One very big inspiration for me has been Subtext. You just have to watch the demo; I can't explain it. http://subtextual.org/subtext2.html

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1 point by andreyf 3976 days ago | link | parent | on: Kicking up more fuss about modules

let*, huh?

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1 point by andreyf 3984 days ago | link | parent | on: Wiki list of websites & apps using Arc

I didn't build them, but there's arclanguage.org/forum and news.ycombinator.com ;)

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1 point by eds 3984 days ago | link

Another one in the category of "things built by someone else":

http://ballerinc.com/ by antiismist (http://arclanguage.com/item?id=7564)

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1 point by antiismist 3975 days ago | link

that's sort of an aborted project for now.

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1 point by smountcastle 3982 days ago | link

I thought that the Arc source for Hacker News and the Arc Forum was available somewhere. Unfortunately, I cannot seem to find it. Can someone please post the URL?

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2 points by skenney26 3982 days ago | link

Here's the link: http://ycombinator.com/arc/arc2.tar

The file you're looking for is news.arc

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3 points by andreyf 4022 days ago | link | parent | on: Syntax highlighting, an unsolved problem

For the curious: http://fuhm.net/Screenshot.png

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2 points by andreyf 4024 days ago | link | parent | on: A thought: Arc <=> JS

This is a "parenscript" for Allegro Lisp/AllergroServe. Def. worth looking at

http://kantz.com/jason/programs/jsgen/

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1 point by andreyf 4024 days ago | link | parent | on: Syntax highlighting, an unsolved problem

Like languages, IDE design and syntax highlighting are sometimes considered "a matter of taste an opinion". But if we disregard this common wisdom, what is a good (the best?) way to highlight s-exp's, variable scope, etc?

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1 point by andreyf 4024 days ago | link | parent | on: Brainstorm: syntax sugar for lambdas

Yuk, the point I was making is that we should skip argument lists if our function is tiny - for example...

    (fn (a b) (- (/ b (* 2 a))))
...has "fn (a b) ", or 9/29 characters ~ 30% code is in some sense superfluous.

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1 point by rkts 4023 days ago | link

It's only a problem if fns of two or more args are common, and they don't seem to be. In news.arc, srv.arc and blog.arc they appear once every 123 lines. In my CL code they appear every 250 lines. Are they more common in your code?

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3 points by andreyf 4024 days ago | link | parent | on: Brainstorm: syntax sugar for lambdas

almost all Arc functions take either one, two or three arguments, with the last one often being a rest argument. So these are the cases that need to be optimized

Although the other analysis is insightful, IMO, this is the most important part of your post. Although, I'm not looking to optimize all functions, just those with bodies smaller than about twice the size of the "fn (argument list)" code.

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1 point by andreyf 4025 days ago | link | parent | on: Brainstorm: syntax sugar for lambdas

> It is backwards compatible with the [ .. _ .. ] form.

I agree that this is important - it's hard to beat the elegance of [ .. _ .. ] when you have one variable.

From the thread you linked, I'm a big fan of:

    [a b -> (- (/ b (* 2 a)))]
While this seems a bit obfuscated:

    [(- (/ _1 (* 2 _0)))]

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1 point by shader 4025 days ago | link

The only things I don't like about arrow form are 1) two characters, and 2) it looks like other math symbols.

I like the colon form, but some text editors make it almost invisible. If the font makes it bold enough, it can be easier to recognize than many of the others.

I originally like the pipe form, as it's also pretty obvious. However, since this is a lisp, you can always rewrite it to suite your individual tastes ;) How about writing a "config" file for arc, and various conversion tools, that allow us to all write in our own style, and easily convert between them? Then we wouldn't have to argue over which separator to use.

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1 point by andreyf 4024 days ago | link

How about writing a "config" file for arc, and various conversion tools, that allow us to all write in our own style, and easily convert between them?

Good call, but this doesn't address the problem of having to explicitly list parameters, which can be the majority of the code in a small function.

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1 point by rincewind 4025 days ago | link

I implemented something like the first one in my m-expression reader, "a -> b;" is translated into "(fn a b)". It could be used with cchooper's customisable reader, so you can still use s-exprs most of the time, like this:

  (map #m[a;b]-> 0 - b / 2 / a; my-list)
it would be read as

  (map (fn (a b) (- 0 (/ b 2 a))) my-list)

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