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1 point by Adlai 4601 days ago | link | parent

EDIT: I didn't explicitly say this here, but I will now: I think that the version numbers should make a definite statement that "catdancer.toerr.3" is an inferior predecessor to "catdancer.toerr.4". I think that in the interest of avoiding "dependency hell", people should be expected to use the latest stable version of a library. However, to ease backwards compatibility, if a library developer sees that the next stable version of their library will break compatibility with other libraries which depend upon their library, they should inform the developers of the other libraries about this, so that once the new library is released, other libraries can be quickly updated to work with the new version.

I think that a good system for version numbers (and who doesn't love copying good systems?) is to have two "latest" versions always available -- a stable version, and an alpha/beta version. The stable versions are the odd version numbers, and the alpha/beta are the evens. Obviously that could be switched, but everybody should use the same convention, and I think this one makes sense because a project starts at version 0, and then the first stable version would be 1.

If this system were used, than only the odd-numbered versions would be required to remain constant. The even-numbered versions could vary as the dev(s) fixed bugs or added features. Odd-numbered versions which depended on other libraries would have to depend on odd versions of those libraries. An even version could depend on any library.

I like the idea of using forum nicknames, because they're unique. URLs are (not entirely, thanks to Internet Explorer...) case-insensitive, so maybe pg should change the forum so that two usernames can't be case-insensitively equal? (If that's the case already, scratch what I just said...)

Meta-data can come in a separate file, named the same as the library. It should probably be some form of alist:

  File arc/keystones/foo.xyzlib/3/meta.arc:
  ((devs   ("John Foo"
            "Bob Baz"
            "Oscar Frozzbozz"))
   (stable T)
   (note   "This library does xyz.")
   (needs  ("catdancer.toerr.3"
This last part could work because libraries would be uniquely identified by a string, as CatDancer explained above.

Also, some form of standard directory structure could be good. Each person would be able to customize where their lib/ directory would be, and what it would be called (in the example, my directory is arc/keystones/). However, within that directory, I think there should be some convention of how libraries would be organized. I think one that makes sense is that each library would have a directory, within which each version would have a separate directory. If this is nested too deeply, it could instead be a wide nesting -- arc/keystones/foo.xyzlib.3/

Within the library directory, the file which gets loaded should have some standard name too -- the most obvious one would be the name of the library. The directory could contain other files containing more code, and those files would be loaded (or required) by foo.xyzlib/3/xyzlib.arc. Meta-data would be in the file meta.arc.

1 point by shader 4601 days ago | link

Customizability of the lib folder is probably a good idea, but it will probably done via hacking the code for the lib functions ;) It shouldn't be that hard to do anyway. With my naming scheme, you'd just change the string that was prepended to the library name.

I'm not sure that odd/even version numbers is such a good idea. It could be very confusing that way. I think that CatDancer's requirement of libraries to be static is a much more reliable concept. Otherwise like he said you'd need to check periodically for updates.

Libraries should also be able to depend on whatever they want. That's the author's decision. If they need the beta version, but they've tested it and know that what they have written is stable, then they should be allowed to publish it that way. They can always make a new version if they need a bug fix.

Also, since the version is just part of the lib name, you can have as many layers of minor version that you want i.e. 1.5.200906015.


1 point by CatDancer 4601 days ago | link

Libraries should also be able to depend on whatever they want

Dependencies should actually be managed outside of the libraries themselves. For example, I have a library foo that depends on bar. Later a new version of Arc comes out that implements what bar did. Now foo doesn't need bar any more. But foo itself hasn't changed, so I shouldn't have to release a new version of foo just to say that it doesn't need bar with this new version of Arc.

Instead we publish dependency information about libraries. For example, I can say that foo needs bar 0 and arc 3, or just arc 4... something like:

  (needs (foo 0) (or ((bar 5) (arc3 0)))
                     ((arc4 0))))


1 point by Adlai 4601 days ago | link

The odd/even numbering doesn't have to be exactly that way. It could also be something like foo/xyzlib/1b for the beta, and foo/xyzlib/1 for the "stable" version.


1 point by CatDancer 4601 days ago | link

only the odd-numbered versions would be required to remain constant

the version numbers should make a definite statement that "catdancer.toerr.3" is an inferior predecessor to "catdancer.toerr.4"

There's a difference between a release number and a version number. A version number, as you say, can be used to indicate that a later release is better, or indicate the stable vs. alpha/beta status of a release, etc. The release number merely identifies releases.

For example, pg had several releases of arc3. Under my naming system, they would have been named "pg.arc3.0", "pg.arc3.1", "pg.arc3.2", etc.

Regardless of the alpha/beta/stable status of a release, two releases of a library should never be released with the same name and release number for several reasons:

- If I'm telling you about a bug in your library, then I can tell you which release if saw the bug in. If you change your library without giving it a new release number, then we won't know if I'm talking about your old release or your new release.

- It's clear when a tool such as my "lib" library which downloads a library from a URL needs to download a new release. If there's a new release number, and I want that new release, then "lib" knows it needs to download the new release. If the release can change at the same URL, then "lib" has to periodically check to see if the file at the URL has changed.

- Just because I think that a release of mine is a "alpha/beta" version doesn't mean that you might not want to keep using it.


1 point by Adlai 4601 days ago | link

I see what you mean -- I was a bit confused about version vs release.

However, I still think that the name of the library should be "arc". Maybe the releases would be named "pg.arc.3.0", "pg.arc.3.1", etc. I just think that the library name should be distinct from the version and release numbers.